Zodiac

[Flack]

Based on his tweets, this is where Lethargic and others will talk about the Zodiac killer.

I love me some Zodiac Killer, by the way. But right now I am reading a book about the Night Stalker, another fan favorite.

[lethargic]

I just finished reading Zodiac Unmasked. Then I got the bluray of Zodiac and watched that again and all the features. Then I downloaded the Zodiac themed episodes of Nash Bridges and Millennium. Yes, Nash Bridges. It was awful. Then I downloaded Google Earth and started looking at all the murder scenes. I just requested another book from the library. I'm also trying to find The Limbic Region which was one of my favorite Zodiac movies but apparently isn't on DVD. I've got a request in for it on Cinemageddon and hope they find it for me since they are the greatest website in history. I almost bought a Zodiac watch off ebay. I've been looking at Zodiac stuff on murderauctions.com and thinking about making my own Zodiac costume. I'm not obsessed.

[Flack]

The re-enactment on Unsolved Mysteries gave me nightmares as a kid.

[Felix]

I'm sure you've seen http://www.zodiackiller.com/

I've seen the movie and have read a few things. I haven't read any books because I am not sure which ones to read. Some people wil say "this is the best one!" and others will say that one is shit and full of misinformation.

[lethargic]

The re-enactment on Unsolved Mysteries gave me nightmares as a kid.

Did you ever see the movie? I didn't care for it the first time around, but watching it the second time I loved it. I wanna watch it over and over now. And in HD it looks amazing. And the documentaries on it are really cool. Showed all kinds of pictures and evidence I've never seen before and interviews with the victims and the cops.

Somebody on there brought up something I've never thought of before. He only wore that Zodiac costume once when he stabbed the kids at Lake Berryesa. The thing is, he tied these kids up and stabbed them a bunch of times, he fully intended to kill them, plain and simple. Only by miracle did the boy live and did the girl hang on long enough to give a description. So why did he spend so much time and effort to make this scary, over the top suit? There weren't going to be any witnesses, he had no intention of letting them live, nobody else was around, it didn't matter if they saw his face. Yet he sewed up this crazy ass suit anyway just because he wanted to wear it and look awesome.

And THAT is why I'm obsessed with the Zodiac over all these other crappy serial killers. He's a friggin Batman villain. Only in a comic book would somebody make a suit like that. Any other serial killer would just wear a ski mask. Not Zodiac. Zodiac made his own costume with his own logo on the front for no reason other than to look like a bad ass. And if those kids had died, nobody would've known he wore it.

I'm sure you've seen http://www.zodiackiller.com/

I've seen the movie and have read a few things. I haven't read any books because I am not sure which ones to read. Some people wil say "this is the best one!" and others will say that one is shit and full of misinformation.

Robert Graysmith's books Zodiac and Zodiac Unmasked are the ones to read. Zodiac in particular. It's just a complete, straight forward account of the entire case up until 1986. His goal with the book was to just compile all the evidence, not just to sell, but to help the police as well. Part of the reason he was never caught was because all the killings were in different counties so all those different police forces never fully co-operated and passed along all the info to each other. Almost everybody in the case have said they learned something they didn't know about from that book. So it's kinda like a text book, but it's still a good read.

The second one, Unmasked, is the one where he's trying to prove the theory that Arthur Leigh Allen was Zodiac and that's the one people have problems with.

While reading Unmasked I was looking around at some stuff on zk.com. I watched their task force meeting thing. I read some other places. I saw all these people who were saying that Graysmith blatantly lied, twisted facts or made stuff up all to prove Allen was the killer. I started thinking, man, why should I bother reading this if it's not true?

Then it dawned on me who these people are. They're the same type of people who refuse to accept 9/11 was a terrorist attack. They're the same type of people who can't accept Oswald shot JFK. These are people who refuse to accept the truth no matter how much scientific fact is shoved into their faces because their whole social life is based around trying to prove these conspiracy theories. Those people who pay money to sit around on the zodiac killer message board all day long and play internet detective do not want Allen, or anybody else, to be the killer because if he is they have no reason to hang out in their tree fort fighting monsters anymore.

Robert Graysmith has lived and breathed this case from day one and has done more research than anybody, including the police. He believes Allen was the killer, every single detective on the case believes it, and the only victim who saw his face and lived positively ID'ed him as the man who shot him. Sorry, but I'm not siding with the skeptics on this one. haha

[lethargic]

Also I've been having this silly thought that I wish they would make a Zodiac video game. Then I see the new trailer for L.A. Noire and holy crap, it's about trying to catch a serial who is writing letters to the Examiner. They did it! haha

[Flack]

I watched Zodiac (the movie) for the first time last year and thought it was really good. I may watch it again. Are all the extras you talked about on the DVD or Blu-Ray? I'd like to pick that up and see that stuff.

I agree with you about the costume. Very few serial killers go through the trouble to make a costume. I guess the closest would be Ted Bundy's fake arm cast or the Night Stalker's AC/DC cap.

Speaking of which, I am currently reading The Night Stalker: The Life and Crimes of Richard Ramirez.

Maybe we need to make a new "Serial Killer / True Crime" sub-section, haha.

[lethargic]

Mine is bluray. I think both Blu and DVD have the same stuff. But it's gotta be the 2 disc Director's Cut, not the regular one.

I read a Night Stalker book a looooooong time ago but don't really remember much but his creepy face.

To keep Zodiac-thon going, Exorcist III is on the way from Netflix!

[Felix]

I'll have to pick up Graysmith's Zodiac book. Might pick up the unmasked one if I like the first.

I thought Allen's handwriting didn't match? or was that just thrown into the movie?

[lethargic]

No, but he was ambidex...ambid....amb...he could write with both hands. The leading theory was that he used his left hand in day to day life and then used his right hand for the Zodiac letters. I believe they didn't get his right hand sample until the second warrant in 1990 and then he just scribbled and acted like he couldn't do it, but everybody who knew him said he could. Another theory was that he used an overhead projector to write the letters and traced somebody else's handwriting.

[lethargic]

So I watched The Exorcist 3. Not enough Zodiac and too much Exorcist I'd say. But it is light years better than most Exorcist movies. It features Patrick Ewing as the Angel of Death, cameos by C. Everett Coop and Larry King PLUS being loosely based on Zodiac? What's not to like?

[Flack]

Does C. Everett Coop inform the audience that getting stabbed is bad for your health?

[lethargic]

No, he just eats.

[Flack]

That can be bad for your health, too. Especially when you get stabbed while eating.

What does The Exorcist III have to do with The Zodiac? Was the Zodiac possessed?

[lethargic]

It's about a serial killer based on Zodiac called The Gemini Killer. They caught him and electrocuted him but his spirit ended up possessing the body of Father Karras who was the priest who died falling down the stairs in the first movie. Then from that body he can control other people and use them to start committing his murders again. Then the cop from the original tries to stop him yadda yadda yadda.

The book is called Legion and the movie was supposed to be too. It was just a follow up that used some of the same characters. The studio meddled with it, changed the title and forced in more connections to the first movie in there, including a terrible exorcism scene and trying to say the demon from the first movie is the one put the Gemini Killer in Karras as his revenge. Also, Brad Douriff played the Gemini Killer, but the studio wanted the guy who played Karras from the first movie in there for the connection so they re-shot some of his scenes with that guy. So the killer goes back and forth between the two actors for no apparent reason.

[Flack]

It's about a serial killer based on Zodiac called The Gemini Killer. They caught him and electrocuted him but his spirit ended up possessing the body of Father Karras who was the priest who died falling down the stairs in the first movie. Then from that body he can control other people and use them to start committing his murders again. Then the cop from the original tries to stop him yadda yadda yadda.

I think you are confused, that movie was called Child's Play.

I think you are confused, that movie was called Shocker.

[Felix]

I bought Graysmith's Zodiac book and have started reading. So far, so good.

[lethargic]

I'm not done yet!

Watched Charlie Chan at Treasure Island last night. It rules like all Charlie Chan movies but this one is supposed to have been inspiration for Zodiac. It features a killer named Doctor Zodiac, played by Cesar Romero, who is terrorizing San Francisco, sending threatening letters and wearing a goofy costume. The DVD even had a documentary on it comparing the movie to the real crimes which takes things even a step further. Cesar Romero is in the movie and later on Cesar Romero played the Joker in a three part story on Batman called The Zodiac Crimes which also included him sending letters and maps to the police.

All in all I do find it crazy that all these connections exist but I can't help but feel like people are playing Pink Floyd with The Wizard of Oz again. A whole lot of coincidences discovered years later. I just can't believe Cesar Romero had this much to do with it. haha

[Flack]

Well that's disappointing. I first read that as "Charlie Chaplin", which would be funnier to watch.

[lethargic]

Well that's disappointing. I first read that as "Charlie Chaplin", which would be funnier to watch.

It doesn't get funnier than a white guy playing a Chinese guy.

Charlie Chaplin DID play a serial killer once in Monsieur Verdoux though.

[lethargic]

I'm not done just haven't found time to post.

Finally found and rewatched Limbic Region. Before Zodiac came out this was pretty much the most factual movie about the case even though it's a fictional telling of it. The fictional part has the detective character, based on Toschi, picking up the Arthur Leigh Allen character and driving him around to all the scenes trying to get him to confess and then from there it flashes back to the original story.

I really liked it before, was kinda bored by it this time. The changes now really stand out and seem silly. It starts off by pretty much perfectly re-creating the first couple of attacks down the smallest detail, but when it gets to the cab driver it's not a white guy but a black woman. Such a silly change for a movie that was presenting most of the situations as fact based as possible up until then. Then the lake attack is switched to an attack in the woods and he turns into a Jason Voorhees like killer. I would rather had just watched Zodiac again.

I am also reading This is the Zodiac Speaking. Instead of being a straight telling of the story like Graysmith's first book, this one is trying to "profile" the Zodiac based on his letters and behavior and try to figure what kind of person he was/is and diagnose any mental problems. It claims it will have a "shocking" diagnosis but I doubt it'll be all that shocking. There's never been a single second where I've figured the Zodiac was insane. Nothing about him comes off as a madman like other serial killers. So I figure that will be their diagnosis and they think that is going to be shocking to say a serial killer wasn't crazy.

The thing I find odd is the guys who wrote this are very anti-Graysmith and don't like all the speculation about Allen. Yet this entire book is nothing but speculation. They somehow get things out of his letters to say that maybe he was epileptic and on drugs and all this stuff. Plus their book does nothing but reference Graysmith's book for every single fact of the case. It's still a good read though and interesting, but I find some of it quite silly.

It also re-enforces my disdain for the people on zodiackiller.com. They have a list of books on the case to read on there. It only lists three books. This one is there. Then there is a fictional book by the same guy which is sort of based on Zodiac. Then there is some really weird book by some MIT guy who claims to have come up with a math formula that proves who the killer was. And that's it. Graysmith's book is not on there. How do you put a book section on the Zodiac site and not list the definitive book on the case? Dummies.

[AArdvark]

It doesn't get funnier than a white guy playing a Chinese guy.

[lethargic]

I think I started something by getting back into this.

CNN planned on doing a special on the case but it got bumped by Egypt coverage.

Today show just did a segment: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 3#41679173

And there's supposed to be some Zodiac story on America's Most Wanted tonight.

[Flack]

I am surprised you are looking forward to the coverage, as I'm pretty sure you're the Zodiac Killer. Or at least a serial killer. Actually, now that I think about it, you would make a pretty good Batman villan. Right before killing somebody, you would have to say something sarcastic. Captain Sarcazmo.

[lethargic]

Shhhhhhh